CONVERSATIONS WITH SAI – Part Thirty Eight
The Spiritual Direction of the Sai Organisation
H (Hislop): Ten years ago when Swami formed the American Sai Organization, He gave what He said was the single most important rule for American Sathya Sai Baba Centers. For the next ten years, what is the single most important rule for our Centers?
SAI: What is your idea?
H: Swami’s first rule – have as little as possible to do with money – it seems to me, it must continue.
SAI: Yes, that is correct. The rule cannot be changed. It must continue unchanged through the next ten years.
H: Then what shall be the particular emphasis for American devotees for the next ten years?
SAI: The emphasis must be on the Sadhana of Purity and Sacrifice. Purity is Divinity. Through sacrifice there is purity of mind and heart. By purity, Divinity is realized. Sacrifice is an offering, a giving up to the Lord, a dedication to the Lord. What is to be sacrificed to the Lord is the sense of ego, of “mine”. Once all sense of ego is sacrificed to the Lord, given up to the Lord, heart and mind are purified of ego-attributes and Divinity can then be realized.
H: During the course of the next ten years is the American Sai Organization to remain a Spiritual Organization, or is it to change its mode of life so as to become primarily a Seva Organization?
SAI: The Organization is to continue to be a Spiritual Organization with some changes, but not major changes. Devotion to God: the purifying of mind and heart, by sacrificing to God all ego tendencies, is to be the purpose and the practice of the Sai devotees in the American Sai Organization.
H: Swami, for the past several years my neck has been painful and doctors can do nothing. What should I do for it?
SAI: (rubbing the neck with His hand) Don’t do anything. Swami will take care of it.
H: I have some questions I do not know how to answer. About living in the moment, what is meant?
SAI: Those are general questions. Ask Kasturi to be here tomorrow morning and I will answer those questions.
H: Baba, may I make a donation to the Whitefield Hospital?
SAI: Why?
H: Well, my operation was there.
SAI: No. Not necessary. It is our Hospital, all is ours.
Human Freewill
H: Swami, as I travel the nation, I am asked questions. I do not know the answers to some of them. One question which always comes up is free will. One has the free will to choose God or the world. But on the other hand, Baba in one glance sees past, present, and future. So how can there be free will?
SAI: From that viewpoint, from the Divine, there is no free will, for all is God. But from the ego viewpoint of the individual, there is free will. There is general law, and then the individual and society. The individual acts in society according to his free will, but all conform to the general law. The individual must act, and his action is a function of his mind. There are thoughts.
Thoughts are seeds. They sprout and become actions. The actions then appear to be free will to the concerned individual. Everyone has been given skills and talents such as intelligence, reason, energy; and they must be put to use in life through action.
(After discussing the interview with Mr. Kasturi the next day, it seems to me that for the individual person it boils down to this: The individual acts according to his talents and capacity at any particular moment. If he is ignorant of Vedanta and has never listened to Baba, the individual feels he or she is acting freely according to his inclinations and his will. On the contrary, if the individual has reached a conviction that everything is absent except God, the individual then feels that everything he is doing is being prompted by God, and thus the question of free will does not bother him).
Living in the Moment
H: Swami, perhaps I will be able to understand it and explain it. Swami said that the mind would fix itself, if one would live in the moment. What does Swami mean by living in the moment? How does one live in the moment?
SAI: Past is gone, future is not here, there is only the moment. Live fully now without worry about the future.
H: But, Swami, one has to look forward to judge the consequences of the action.
SAI: Why? Live now. Act according to your best feelings and thoughts and do not worry.
H: But Swami said that Krishna chose Arjuna because Arjuna had foresight and looked ahead to the consequences.
SAI: Don’t think about Arjuna. He was worried about his relatives.
H: But Swami, when I make some move in respect to the American Council, I have to consider what the consequences will be before I go ahead. That does not square with living in the moment.
SAI: But that is duty. In duty you must look into the future and weigh the consequences.
Who is the Doer?
H: Oh! That is what is meant. Now I understand it. Another question which arises is: do actions come about because of Baba, or by Baba? That is, action takes place because of the sunlight but the sun is not regarded as the doer, whereas it is said that Swami is the doer in respect to our actions.
SAI: The Sun gives light – but the Sun also does work. It makes changes in plant life, for example.
H: Does that mean that Swami is the actor, the actual doer in our lives?
SAI: Consider that you are an instrument and Sai acts by using you as His instrument for action.
H: That implies that it is foolish to think that we act, for the fact is that the action is the result of a prompting by God?
SAI: Yes, the action is prompted by God.
H: But Swami, it is not clear in practice. I forgot to bring the check I wanted to donate to the hospital. Then, after reaching the veranda here, I remembered it and felt I should go back to the room and get it. That action of returning to our room had to be a prompting by Baba. But then, after Baba prompted me to get the check, Baba refused to accept the check! The principle in practice is not clear.
SAI: Only in that way was there an occasion to teach you how Swami regards such matters. Had you given the check from love, perhaps Swami could have accepted. But you were giving in return for the operation. But you are family and there is no payment in family. For work outside the family, there may be some employment and some payment.
H: But it was Swami prompting me that sent me for the check?
SAI: Yes, it was Swami prompting you.
H: Swami, the lesson of the check is learned. It is a very clear case of payment for services instead of the family feeling! Now I take it to be the case that whatever is done by me is being prompted by Baba.
SAI: That is the correct attitude. That is the correct way.
H: But could not a person then say that he had no volition and therefore would sit and do nothing unless Swami moved him? Can a man choose to be lazy?
SAI: Yes, he could be lazy.
H: By the prompting of Sai?
SAI: Yes
H: Is it the waking ‘I’ who dreams, or does the dream state create its own ‘I’?
SAI: It is one ‘I’ only in waking, dreaming, and deep sleep states.
All Life Flows Towards God
H: For life in this world, Swami, the goal is reunion with God. What is the purpose of life in the rest of this vast universe?
SAI: All life may flow toward God; even frogs in a pond and insects.
H: But Swami, that is life in this world. I mean life elsewhere in the universe.
SAI: Yes, this small planet Earth is very special. It is unique in the universe. This is a very important topic. It is of very great significance. One who can understand the mystery of the Earth is great indeed. He is infinite.
CONVERSATIONS WITH SAI – Part Thirty Eight
H (HISLOP): What is duty to society?
SAI: Duty is the exercise of your freedom, but in such a way that you do not deny others their freedom. For example, a teacher’s freedom to leave the classroom is dependent on his duty to teach the students. A politician’s freedom to run for public office is dependant on his ability to serve the people.
H: Is duty to society universal and binding on every person?
SAI: If a man is living on spirit, he has no duty or obligation to society.
H: Living on spirit must be having total faith in God and total dependence on Him?
SAI: Faith in the Divine is single and cannot be gained by reason. Either there is or there is not faith. It can arise through sadhana…Why are people unhappy?
H: Because they are not fully surrendered to God.
SAI: That is overall. But what is the immediate reason? The reason is they do not live in the present. Young people think of the future. Old people think of the past. While you are here, do not think of the world, or the Sai Organization. Be only in the present. Think only of Swami and be happy.
Transcending Humanity to Realise Our Divinity
H: If the world is unique, no other place like it in the universe, then the destiny of its inhabitants must be likewise unique. What is the man’s
SAI: Man’s destiny is to return to his source, and merge into that source.
H: If the world is unique, perhaps it is an accident?
SAI: No, not an accident.
H : If there are no other beings in the universe comparable to man, their destinies must be different from the destiny of man?
SAI: No. All life has the same destiny, to merge into God, just as rain drops wherever they fall eventually merge with the sea, their source.
H: How is mankind different?
SAI: Only man has intellect and conscience. By means of these he may in full consciousness realize that he is the Divine. If a God, manifest with form, should fall, he would again have to seek human birth to again realize himself.
H: If the other being of the universe are lacking in conscience and intellect (Buddhi) then how can they realize their destiny?
SAI: They each have their own means of fulfilling destiny, just as man has his means. Man measures and judges by what he knows of himself. To man it seems impossible that beings could live in circumstances unlike his own. Whereas, in fact, countless beings live within the unimaginable heat of the sun; other multitudes live in the cold of ice. At this very point (Swami jamming his thumb down on the arms of the chair) there are countless multitudes of beings. There is life in every place throughout the cosmos. Wherever God is, there is life.
H: There seems to be something about Earth, life that is different in a different way. Swami, the Lord Himself, is giving pointed attention to life here. Is there any other place in the universe where Baba needs to give such pointed attention?
SAI: There is no life apart from God’s “beingness”. God is everywhere at all times. Man sees Him as an all-powerful being with human form, whereas to a frog He would appear to be a giant frog, and so on.
H: I still don’t see how other beings realize their destiny, when they do not have the instruments of intellect and conscience.
SAI: Other beings do not worry about achieving their destiny. They live happily within nature. For example, fish live and sport in water without anxiety to be other than they are. Throughout the universe, beings achieve their own destiny through their own unique inherent nature. Only man transcends his humanity to self-consciously realize his divinity.
H: Swami, a question I am constantly asked and which I am unable to answer – that is, about UFO’s, beings from other planets visiting us here. This is a big thing in the USA. Books are published, and there is all sort of verified evidence.
SAI: It is imagination only.
H: But Swami, there is evidence — the metal of a crashed spacecraft in the hands of the Government. People are examined by qualified specialists and they are not inventing their experiences. When I tell questioners that it is all imagination, the persons who ask are unable to accept that answer.
SAI: Nevertheless, it is imagination. Imagination can project physical evidence. There is life in every place and those societies have their own cultures. They have no interest whatsoever in the Earth or about the Earth’s society. They do not visit the Earth.
H: Then, Swami, I should reply to people that despite all evidence cited to the contrary that UFO’s and alien visitors, the whole thing is a product of imagination and imagination only?
SAI: There is no problem. You can enjoy the praise.
H: But I do not, Swami. There is no person there to receive the praise. There is only a void there. No person is found.
SAI: You do not have to receive the praise. Regard it as part of the impersonal stream of happenings that you see.
H: That which I observe is not me.
SAI: Exactly.
H: When Swami said he would give me strong sight, what sight did he mean?
SAI: All sight. Physical sight and wisdom too. I will see that you are dependent on no one of either physical sight, or wisdom.
H: Swamiji, is there an encouraging word for her illness that I can tell Victoria?
SAI: (Baba, moving His hand, creates a lingam) See – this has two different halves. One half is for your eyes. The other half is for your wife’s illness. There is nothing wrong with the body’s mechanism. It is an infection only. Put a little water on the lingam and drink the water. Place a drop of the water in each eye also.
H: Swamiji, at this very moment, now, I abandon life, concepts and individuality — I pray there will be no need for another birth.
SAI: Another birth is best for you.
H: No freedom yet!
SAI: Yes, another birth is best. In that you will get total, final Liberation.
H: But, Swami, I don’t want to go through Youth again. Youth is not a good experience – it is dangerous and difficult.
SAI: It will be better life than this one. Don’t waste time thinking of the future. Where is the lingam?
H: Here, Swami.
SAI: (Swami took the lingam and showed it to the others in the room: Then the lingam disappeared from Swami’s hand and a Shakti-Siva symbol was there). Baba said, “This is the beginning and the end, very sacred. The base is Shakti and the remainder is Siva. Would you like the lingam or this?”
H: Swami, how can I choose? I don’t know enough. (Then the Shakti-Siva symbol was gone, the lingam reappeared and Baba handed it back to me.)
