UNFORGETTABLE MOMENTS WITH SAI – Part Fourty This is the seventh instalment of the wonderful recollections of Mr. Chidambaram Krishnan, a long-time devotee of Bhagavan Baba who came to the Lord under somewhat unusual circumstances. In the last Instalment [06], we took you up to the point where Mr. Krishnan dramatically becomes united with his estranged son. In this the seventh instalment, we now have Mr. Krishnan telling us about an incident in the earlier part of his life when he was about to be murdered while visiting Ceylon [now Sri Lanka ], and how Swami transforms the assassins at the very last moment. Read on. Swami once told me, “I will provide you the ultimate protection no matter what; and I will also give you detailed instructions about what to do and when.” In the beginning, I did not appreciate Swami’s Divinity and used to critically analyse every one of His statements and remarks, instead of accepting them with full faith. Eventually, it dawned on me that I had no right whatsoever to indulge in any such analysis. Instead, I had to surrender totally, in the full sense of the word, leaving everything to Swami, Karma or no Karma. He knows everything and He would always do what was best for me – slowly, this realisation sank into me. I realised that I had no choice but to accept whatever Swami decided for me, having the faith that He would always do what was good for me. Thus it is that I have given up completely all that useless analysis. If He says stand, I stand; if He says sit, I sit; my job is to simply obey His command. I have now learnt to see Sai in all because that is the only truth. No doubt Swami tells us again and again that He is in all but we quickly forget that because we are so used to focussing on external diversity. So we have to constantly drill ourselves to see the Inner Divinity rather than the external form. How to Avoid the Consequences of Karma Here I am reminded of a story. It seems that a certain gentleman who was once travelling with Swami in a car asked, “Swami, you say one should not hunt and kill animals. Suppose a cobra comes to bite. Can one kill it?” Swami replied, “If you think it is coming to bite you, you could kill it, but if you believe that Swami resides in that cobra also, you should not kill it.” “But, Swami,” said the other person, “the cobra would bite!” “No,” replied Swami, “If you really believe that Swami is present also in that cobra, it will not bite.” I can say with authority, that this is really true. I have had many such experiences when danger that was imminent miraculously passed away because of this belief. That belief brings Swami’s protection. Swami once told me: “A man is coming to attack you and to stab you. He is trying to do that because of your Karma. Maybe you can escape the attack but you can never evade the consequences of Karma forever; because there is, under normal circumstances, no escape. However, if you see Swami in the person who is coming to attack and stab you and do Namaskar to that person, then the danger would pass and indeed the Karma itself would get cancelled, just like that!” It is all a drama. Swami is the one who is coming to stab and Swami is also the one who is getting stabbed. Swami is both. We see these two individuals as distinct because of ignorance. But once we realise the Truth, the drama is over and Karma vanishes!” So the safest way to wipe out all past Karma and to avoid accumulating fresh Karma is to see Swami in all. This comes through total surrender, and that is the best option. The Intriguing Ceylon AdventureI shall now narrate an incident that happened in 1961 that highlights how Swami protects once He gives the word. At that time, our company had a lot of business in Ceylon, now Sri Lanka. Our product had a trademark, and the rule in Ceylon was that the trademark must be renewed before the expiry date. In India, the rule is not so strict and there is a grace period, but in Ceylon they were very strict; renew before the expiry date or else lose claim to the trademark. If the ownership of the trademark was allowed to lapse, then someone else could use it; that was the law in Ceylon .As I told you, our company trademark had to be renewed, and my brother had to go to Ceylon for that. We had a rule: never do anything without taking Swami’s permission first. So my eldest brother went to Puttaparthi to get Swami’s blessings for going to Ceylon for this purpose. The company was registered in his name, and legally he was the owner; so it was he who had to go and sign the papers needed for trademark renewal. My brother thus came to Puttaparthi, and sought Swami’s blessings, which He lovingly gave. Swami then asked my brother to do a few small things while in Ceylon. Swami also gave some Prasaadam and permitted my brother to attend the wedding of the High Commissioner’s daughter, while in Ceylon. My brother then left Puttaparthi and returned to our place Mukkudal via Trichy. In Trichy, he booked a seat on a flight to Colombo. It was about 7.30 in the evening when he came home. On arrival, he told me that he had received Swami’s blessings, had booked a ticket on the Trichy – Colombo flight and would leave the next morning. He added, “I would be gone for a few days; while I am away, take care of the business.” At 4.30 A.M., my brother woke me up and said, “Swami told me repeatedly a short while ago that I should not go to Ceylon.” I was taken aback and said, “Brother, I think you must have had a dream. You have personally

CONVERSATIONS WITH SAI – Part Thirty Eight The Spiritual Direction of the Sai Organisation H (Hislop): Ten years ago when Swami formed the American Sai Organization, He gave what He said was the single most important rule for American Sathya Sai Baba Centers. For the next ten years, what is the single most important rule for our Centers? SAI: What is your idea? H: Swami’s first rule – have as little as possible to do with money – it seems to me, it must continue. SAI: Yes, that is correct. The rule cannot be changed. It must continue unchanged through the next ten years. H: Then what shall be the particular emphasis for American devotees for the next ten years? SAI: The emphasis must be on the Sadhana of Purity and Sacrifice. Purity is Divinity. Through sacrifice there is purity of mind and heart. By purity, Divinity is realized. Sacrifice is an offering, a giving up to the Lord, a dedication to the Lord. What is to be sacrificed to the Lord is the sense of ego, of “mine”. Once all sense of ego is sacrificed to the Lord, given up to the Lord, heart and mind are purified of ego-attributes and Divinity can then be realized. H: During the course of the next ten years is the American Sai Organization to remain a Spiritual Organization, or is it to change its mode of life so as to become primarily a Seva Organization? SAI: The Organization is to continue to be a Spiritual Organization with some changes, but not major changes. Devotion to God: the purifying of mind and heart, by sacrificing to God all ego tendencies, is to be the purpose and the practice of the Sai devotees in the American Sai Organization. H: Swami, for the past several years my neck has been painful and doctors can do nothing. What should I do for it? SAI: (rubbing the neck with His hand) Don’t do anything. Swami will take care of it. H: I have some questions I do not know how to answer. About living in the moment, what is meant? SAI: Those are general questions. Ask Kasturi to be here tomorrow morning and I will answer those questions. H: Baba, may I make a donation to the Whitefield Hospital? SAI: Why? H: Well, my operation was there. SAI: No. Not necessary. It is our Hospital, all is ours. Human Freewill H: Swami, as I travel the nation, I am asked questions. I do not know the answers to some of them. One question which always comes up is free will. One has the free will to choose God or the world. But on the other hand, Baba in one glance sees past, present, and future. So how can there be free will? SAI: From that viewpoint, from the Divine, there is no free will, for all is God. But from the ego viewpoint of the individual, there is free will. There is general law, and then the individual and society. The individual acts in society according to his free will, but all conform to the general law. The individual must act, and his action is a function of his mind. There are thoughts. Thoughts are seeds. They sprout and become actions. The actions then appear to be free will to the concerned individual. Everyone has been given skills and talents such as intelligence, reason, energy; and they must be put to use in life through action. (After discussing the interview with Mr. Kasturi the next day, it seems to me that for the individual person it boils down to this: The individual acts according to his talents and capacity at any particular moment. If he is ignorant of Vedanta and has never listened to Baba, the individual feels he or she is acting freely according to his inclinations and his will. On the contrary, if the individual has reached a conviction that everything is absent except God, the individual then feels that everything he is doing is being prompted by God, and thus the question of free will does not bother him). Living in the Moment H: Swami, perhaps I will be able to understand it and explain it. Swami said that the mind would fix itself, if one would live in the moment. What does Swami mean by living in the moment? How does one live in the moment? SAI: Past is gone, future is not here, there is only the moment. Live fully now without worry about the future. H: But, Swami, one has to look forward to judge the consequences of the action. SAI: Why? Live now. Act according to your best feelings and thoughts and do not worry. H: But Swami said that Krishna chose Arjuna because Arjuna had foresight and looked ahead to the consequences. SAI: Don’t think about Arjuna. He was worried about his relatives. H: But Swami, when I make some move in respect to the American Council, I have to consider what the consequences will be before I go ahead. That does not square with living in the moment. SAI: But that is duty. In duty you must look into the future and weigh the consequences. Who is the Doer? H: Oh! That is what is meant. Now I understand it. Another question which arises is: do actions come about because of Baba, or by Baba? That is, action takes place because of the sunlight but the sun is not regarded as the doer, whereas it is said that Swami is the doer in respect to our actions. SAI: The Sun gives light – but the Sun also does work. It makes changes in plant life, for example. H: Does that mean that Swami is the actor, the actual doer in our lives? SAI: Consider that you are an instrument and Sai acts by using you as His instrument for action. H: That implies that it is foolish to think that we act, for the fact is that the action is the result of a prompting by God? SAI: Yes, the action is prompted by God. H: But Swami, it is not clear in practice. I forgot to bring the check I wanted

CONVERSATIONS WITH SAI – Part Thirty six God is the Doer H (Hislop): Swami, I have two questions important for our work in daily life, and in preparation for the Symposium in Rome. In His Discourses, Swami says that God should be recognized as the Doer of all actions and that we should not take it upon ourselves to be the doer. Further, Swami also says that instead of depending on limited human strength, we should call upon the strength of God. Since Swami says these two things in his Discourses, then the instructions must be intended for everybody? SAI: Take the viewpoint that God is working through you. H: What does that mean, Swami? How does that apply in the actual actions taking place each day? SAI: You think you are engaging in the action, but it is your body doing so, or your mind, or your intelligence. But God is working through them. It is only the Atma in you which is the source of action. The Atma is God. H: Then, instead of considering that it is myself acting, I should tell myself-and appreciate-that “I” am just a word, and that all these actions and movements going on are not coming from “Hislop” but are actually God Himself acting? SAI: God is using your intelligence, mind, and body as His instruments for doing that particular work. You write with a pen, or cut paper with scissors – but it is not those instruments that are doing the work, it is you who are using the instruments for the purpose of doing the work. Likewise, the instruments you call “yourself” – intelligence, mind, and body – are used by God for His purpose. H: Is that a practical thing to do, hour in and hour out? Tell myself that my mind and body, at any and every moment, are at that moment being used by God as His instrument? Is that a practical way to live and move through the day? SAI: Yes. That is the fact, and it is practical. H: But Swami! Then it is God doing evil! SAI: At first, maybe (i.e. apparently), but then not. It is not God who does evil. Evil is from the ego. H: When I die…. SAI: (interrupting) Who are you? You do not die! The body is like clothes – off and on. H: Then after the body dies, I take another? Why? SAI: Balance of desires. Desires are like seeds – they sprout. These desires cause rebirth. Finish with desires – no more birth. Mind is a desire bundle. H: But this creation – world, body, and mind – is it a projection of the Atma? Are mind, body, intelligence creations or projections of the Atma? SAI: Creation is from the Atma. The Atma, God, is the positive. Body is the negative. They join and action results. Otherwise, nothing. H: There is the Atma, and then creation as the projection from the Atma. SAI: No! That is where the mistake is made! Creation is not a projection from the Atma; the Atma, God, is permeating every fibre of the creation. The form is just appearance….It is energy, God, the Divine Energy which causes the form and which is the actuality of the form. The Unlimited Divine H: To do all these tasks, Swami, takes a lot of energy. Human energy is low, and Swami says to call on the Divine Energy. How? SAI: Yes, human energy is low and the Divine Energy is without limit! You are God! H: Does Swami mean that when the human energy limit is felt, that I should reject it as false, and instead identify myself as God, as He who is limitless energy? SAI: Yes. Reject it! Look at your shadow – you are sitting and your shadow is there. When you stand up, your shadow also grows. Your shadow is the human energy. You are the Divine Energy. When you rise, and also do the Divine work, your energy grows. H: Swami, the Divine Energy versus limited human energy. SAI: There is only Divine Energy. H: But what seems to me to be my human energy does not seem to be sufficient; for example, the trip to Central America. SAI: All is God. Know that it is He who is Energy. Then all is well. H: Oh! When the human energy slows, leave it and know that the truth is Divine Energy! Like when some years ago on long drives, Baba would look a little tired; and then, instantly, he would be fresh like a flower. SAI: Do not equate this body with human bodies. It is only the appearance of a form for the sake of the devotees. There is nothing of Swami except for His devotees. There are no desires. This body is just an appearance of form….There is matter. There is humanness. There is Divinity. Matter is selfishness; humanness is selfishness plus some kindness; God has no selfishness, just total love. As the base, selfishness is essential for health and prosperity. Without health, what can be done? Work for these must be done; then help others; then God only. H: But Swami, even in that worldly work of necessary “selfishness”, where is “I”? Surely it is only God who is doing work? SAI: That is better. That is the best way. You are only an instrument for Swami, an instrument which Swami is using for His purpose – you, U.S. Chairman, speaking of Swami’s teachings and so on. Unlocking Divinity Within SAI: What is Being? Q: It is “Sat”. SAI: That is just a Sanskrit word. Being means immortality. (During the group portion of this interview, a lady with a dull colored bracelet on her arm, showed her wrist in front of Baba and asked Him to change the bracelet into something pretty. It seemed to me that Baba was not pleased with the demand, but nevertheless he removed the bracelet, held it with two fingers, blew His breath upon it, and it became a new shining gold bracelet of an entirely different pattern and configuration. At this point, the group portion of the interview ended and Swami began the series of private conversations in the inner interview room). CONVERSATIONS WITH SAI

CONVERSATIONS WITH SAI – Part Thirty four The Teachings of Buddha Hislop: What were the mistakes, if any, in the teachings of the Buddha? SAI: One mistake he made was to allow women to come close to him in the Sangha. It was a woman who gave him the meat, the poisoned meat which killed him. H: It was his custom to accept whatever was given into the begging bowl, even if it was meat. SAI: That was a second mistake. Here he failed to put his teaching into practice – his teaching was Ahimsa – total non-violence to all creatures. H: The Buddha taught that Nibbana (Nirvana) was the ultimate goal. Is that different from the liberation of which Swami speaks? SAI: It is the same. Nirvana, Liberation, Realization are just different words. Contentment and the Need for Spirituality (Note: On the road to Anantapur, we came upon a woman beggar who was blind. Baba gave her money and she responded with “Sai Ram, Swami”. It had been two years since He had been to Anantapur, but without Baba even speaking, she recognized Him.) H: The woman seems to be happy. SAI: She was born blind but is always happy. She has no worries. H: How could that be? Look at her life. It must be a life of misery. SAI: Why? She has no desires and is content. She does not know the life of the person who has eyes. She does not think that others are different from her. Her family is worried about her condition, but she has no worries. H: How could she not want a life different from that of a beggar? SAI: Desires arise from the tendency of the mind to compare. It is chiefly the eyes, the vision, which presents to the mind opportunities for comparison. She is blind, her mind is not busy with comparison, so desires do not arise. H: If she continues happy and content, will she be finished with life and death and be free at the time she dies? SAI: No. That requires spirituality. Vipassana MeditationH: It is very important to know what Swami said, that the ground from which desires arise is the mind making comparisons. Before I had the good fortune to meet Swamiji, my wife and I went to Burma every year for the practice of Vipassana meditation. It starts with Anapana.SAI: I know, the watchman at the point where nose and lip meet.H: After the mind got concentrated enough to sit there, the Meditation Master directed the concentration to the top of the head.SAI: Then there was a sensation like ants crawling on the scalp.H: Yes, Swami. Wherever I placed my attention, there was intense burning. That fire is said to be the direct perception of the arising and immediate disintegration of the smallest particles of matter which comprise the body. The conscious perception of the fire burns up all impurities. Was the Meditation Master correct in what he said? SAI: It does not matter if the Meditation Master knew correctly or not. You did the work and you got the result. This is illustrated by a story. There was a guru and he had a woman disciple. The guru worshipped Krishna, and he had a lingam which required daily puja. Each day at the time for puja, the disciple would bring the required milk. However, guru and disciple lived on opposite sides of the river. Heavy rains came, and the river rose to a flood. The disciple had to wait for a boat, and this made her late with the milk for the guru. He became angry that the puja could not be performed at the proper time and told the disciple, “You are late because of lack of faith in the sacred Name of Krishna. With faith in Him and reciting His sacred Name, you could walk across the surface of the river and not have to wait for a boat”.The next day, the disciple, accepting the word of her guru as the word of God Himself, walked across the surface of the river and delivered the milk on time. After two or three days of this, the guru became curious and asked the disciple how she had arrived on time even though the river was still in flood. The disciple replied that she did as instructed by the guru and walked across the river, constantly chanting the sacred Name of Krishna.The guru could not accept this story and secretly followed her as she departed. To his astonishment, the woman never hesitated, but walked directly across the river. Instantly resolving to try it himself, he pulled up his dhoti above his knees and ventured to step on the water. The water failed to sustain him and he was instantly immersed. This story illustrates the vital role of faith. The woman enjoyed full faith, and it never occurred to her to even lift the hem of her sari for fear of the water; whereas faith was lacking in the guru. Dealing with Conflict H: Swami, conflict between people appears to be inevitable. What to do? SAI: Conflicts do come about, but they should be limited to that point, to the fact of conflict and should not be allowed to spread into additional words and feelings. If the conflict is allowed to expand, anger will deepen, bitter feelings will arise, and strong hatred will develop. On the other hand, love also starts as a point, and if allowed to do so, will expand until it fills one’s entire life. This is spiritual truth. If there is conflict and disharmony between two people, and if they will leave it at that and not allow it to move further, then before long both parties will soften and harmony can again come into the relationship. At the worst, the conflict will remain dormant and will not grow to involve other people. The practice of limiting disharmony and allowing love to freely expand will bring an organization to a harmonious unity. That harmony will attract public admiration and make possible great accomplishments in the large, wealthy country of America.Each member of

CONVERSATIONS WITH SAI – Part Thirty Two The Purity of Sai H (Hislop): I have asked important persons around Sai if Sai is all- knowing at all times, or only when He so chooses. They give different answers. SAI: Sai knows everything. That people are in doubt due to the Maya of the Avathar. You know that Sai is in your heart, yet you think, “Is Sai upstairs in His room, or is He elsewhere?” It is the human element. The body has the name of Hislop, but you are not the body. You are the Atma (spirit). There is no desire in Sai. There is total purity only. This entire body is Amrith (nectar). Where is there space for desire in Sai? Everything is already mine. Sai does not think. My will is immediately realized. Whatever it may be, it instantly appears; an envelope, gold, everything. Where is there room for desire? I have no thought. If I think, it is for you, it is not for Me. Sai requires no food. If I eat, it is for the benefit of everyone. If I give Darshan, it is not for Me, it is for others. I am talking to you now – it is for you, not for Me. A point does not appear in Sai. First a point, then disappoint! I am always the same. I am love, always love. If there are angry words, that is action. Inwardly, I remain the same. I have the same tender love for that person. H: Swami, some tragedy happens to a person, and they try to find a reason for it in the actions of this lifetime. SAI: Yes, that can be. H: But I thought that all that happens in this life is the result of our behaviour in past existences. SAI: Not always. Something could happen with its cause in this life.  The Goal is to Realise Our Divinity H: Swami, please restate or redefine the goal, the objective of the American Sathya Sai Organization. SAI: It is not just the American, it is the objective for the worldwide Sathya Sai Organizations. People, the world over, do not know they are Divine. They do not even realize what it is to be human. They have ego, anger, greed, envy, lust, hatred. These are not human qualities; they are animal qualities. Unless Sai devotees are, at the very least, human persons free of animal qualities or characteristics, how can such devotees suggest spiritual life to others? Such suggestions will have no impact, if devotees in general are not yet free of animal characteristics. There should be in each Sathya Sai Baba Center two or three members who live a life as true human beings The individual does not progress alone. He is not separate from Society, and he must do his bit to uplift the society. Therefore, the individual’s work to free himself from animal characteristics and to live a spiritual life is not done for himself, but is done for all of God’s creatures. The work of freeing the individual’s nature from animal qualities is done, in love, for God, and done in His Name and with His help. Each member of the Sathya Sai Baba Center should work very hard to purify the quality of his life, and the goal should be to lead a perfect life, an ideal life; to be an ideal exemplar of the divine teachings of Bhagavan Sri Sathya Sai Baba. The world will respond to the ideal life of a Sai devotee. The world is yearning for the ideal life and will, of its own accord, adopt such a life if it comes into view. They will respond, and they will follow such a life. H: But all must come to be humans in order to merge with God, is it not so? SAI: Not totally so. There is love. H: Then, can man take a further step and go into the world above the senses.  SAI: That is possible. H: But is it not possible to realize the Self, or merge with God, while in the human state? SAI: Oh, yes. That can be done. H: Does Swami mean that both possibilities exist, that man could go one way or the other? SAI: Yes, one way or the other.  H: Then what makes the difference? What is the difference in man that he would make one choice or the other? RB: That is what I want to know, too.  SAI: Yes, trees. Then human beings and animals. At the very center is the Divine. It is the support of everything. First is liquid, chemistry. Then solid, physics. Then trees, botany. Then man, the pinnacle of life. But at the center, supporting all, is the Divine. Without the Divine, where is chemistry, physics, botany? This will be the teaching of all courses at the University. The students will understand the full picture. Realising God Through Love  SAI: Love is the dominant reason. Compassionate love is pure love, unselfish. In the animal there is love, but it is mixed with lust. But compassion is pure love. Only man has compassion. Through love he may realize the oneness of life, and in this way, by love, he will be one with God. H: Then, Swami, man can definitely realize God while in the human birth?SAI: Yes.H: But suppose he fails in that, and thus eventually finds himself as a being above the sensory level, what then?SAI: The same holds true. God is love and wherever there is pure love and love only, that is God. Love is everything, but people do not understand love. Their understanding is confused. For example: There is a child. Mother and father love the child with pure love. The child is kissed and fondled and showered with affection. This is the action of pure love. In this action there is no lust; there is no lust in that love. Another example: A father is 40 years old. There is the wife and the daughter who is 18 years of age. The love of the father for his family leads him to kiss his daughter. In this action of love, there is no

CONVERSATIONS WITH SAI – Part Thirty The Uniqueness of Human Birth H (Hislop) : May I ask a spiritual question? SAI: Go ahead. H: Is there something that is unique about having a physical body? SAI: The human form is unique in that the divine force is as much as 80 per cent present. In the animal only about 15 per cent. Man can raise himself to union with God, whereas the animal can never be free of its natural state. For example, a cat can be fed some nice things, but if it sees a mouse, even while eating the food, it leaves the food and goes for the mouse. A tiger can be trained, but food made from grains does not satisfy it. The tiger’s impulse to kill and eat remains. H: But Swami, what is so unusual about it? Why should anyone wish to have a physical body? SAI: Hislop is in Mexico or America or Puttaparthi. Without a body how would he know where he was? A stone falls. The force of gravity is unseen but is revealed by the falling stone. The body of man is necessary because it is able to reveal the unseen God. The sun, moon and stars are in space, and they move and revolve according to order and discipline. If that discipline wavered for a moment all would collapse. What maintains that discipline? It is the unseen divine force. H: What is unique and special about having a human body? SAI: Swami already explained that the body serves to reveal the indwelling divinity. H: Yes, Swamiji. But I mean from the standpoint of the individuals what is the value to the individual of having a body? He lives and dies, why should he care? Science says there are many planets where there will be much the same life. SAI: In all the universe there is no other planet that has human life, or a similar life-form. H: In that case, Swami, there has to be something very special and unique about life in a physical body? SAI: There is life throughout the universe. To God, the universe is one. Rebirth can never be in other regions of the universe. Always the rebirth is on Earth. H: Swami, what does that mean to the individual? SAI: The expression of life on Earth is upward through the human to the Divine. By virtue of human birth, the next step is the full realization of the Divine. Human life is sacred and must be appreciated as having the highest value. H: Considering the individual, Swamiji, can it be that Swami is saying that human birth is some sort of a special opportunity to get free from birth and death? SAI: Quite right. That is the case. H: Swamiji! Then, that is it? That is the secret! That is unique feature of being born into a body! SAI: Yes, that is the unique feature. H: Swami, are there other regions throughout the universe where there may also be an escape from birth and death. SAI: Only on Earth may this take place. In no other planet or region throughout the indescribable vastness of the universe does this opportunity exist. It is unique and is limited to this earth. H: Swami! Wonderful! Wonderful! How sacred is this Earth! How infinitely precious is human birth! SAI: That is so. But people have no appreciation or understanding of it. They do not know. H: Swami, may this great life-secret be told to the devotees? At Sathya Sai Baba centres, they should know that even five minutes time wasted is a tragic loss in the face of the magnificence of this human opportunity. SAI: Yes, you may tell. The question that you have raised is of the greatest importance, and the answer may be told. H: Swami, the answer is divine! It is so wonderful that adequate appreciation cannot be put into words. Swamiji said that there was no rebirth from Earth to other regions of the universe. How about the reverse? Can there be a movement from the regions or universe to Earth? SAI: All life may aspire to human birth. But only through the human birth may God be realized. To waste time is the greatest folly. Now and here is the individual. Now and here is the opportunity to realize the absolute goal of life. Who can be sure of the conditions and status of his next birth? Not even one moment of this life should be wasted. The Sadhana of Adjusting to Life A Visitor: Swami, I have a question. What is the best sadhana for a young person with business, family attachments and bondage. (After Swami had jokingly referred to the visitor’s 8 month-old daughter as attachment bondage – Samsara)? SAI: It is not correct to look at these things as bondage or attachment. They must be seen as “adjustment sadhana.” To keep your life balanced and to give direction they are good things. The changes you must make in your life, your daily routine – these adjustments are sadhana, not bondage. The purpose of all sadhana is to see the good, the Divine in everything and to be able to overlook the bad, the evil. From the viewpoint of Divinity, there is no good or bad – all is Divine. But the mind sees this as good and that as bad, this as right and that as wrong. It is the mind that must be trained to see the Divine in everyone and in each difficulty. A small example: A dead dog is on the road, crows are pecking at it. People walk by and say, “Oh, what a terrible sight and horrible smell !” But Jesus was walking by and He said, “What beautiful teeth the dog has, so white and shiny. Nobody was brushing or taking care, but still the dog kept such beautiful teeth.” Jesus was showing that one can see the best qualities in even the worst situations. People who are saintly look always to the good and do not become entangled in the bad. Another example: A knife is used by a surgeon and

CONVERSATIONS WITH SAI – Part Twenty Eight (Hislop and an interpreter were having breakfast with Swami. Two men, Mr. XY and Mr. CD, entered the room, and Mr. XY fell at Swami’s feet. He was in tears, and it was obvious that some grave and sad errand had brought him to Swami. Hislop and his companion immediately left the room. Shortly, the two men left and Baba called Hislop and the companion into His presence again. Names of persons have been changed so as not to disclose identities). SAI: The case of Sri XY will illustrate how Swami takes care of His devotees. When Sai’s mother died, the summer course was on. Sai sent the body to Puttaparthi, but did not accompany it. His duty was the summer course. At the XY house, there were only the women and the body of Mrs. XY. Nobody to take care. Not even a priest to chant the required Vedic hymns. Swami drove directly from Prasanthi Nilayam to the XY house taking a Vedic priest from the ashram in the car with Him. Swami comforted the women and made all the needed arrangements before driving on to Brindavan. Then He sent a senior man from the Brindavan household to the house so that the ladies would not be alone in the house overnight. Sai is the close and the real relative of His devotees. The ladies of the XY household left their sorrow and all became happy with Sai’s shower of grace. H: Swami was not told, but somehow He must have known when the lady died? SAI: Swami knew well before the time of her death. He made all the necessary arrangements at that time, even sending a special message to Hislop on Tuesday the 16th that the college celebration would not be held on the 25th, but not to tell the students. Mrs. XY was born on a full moon day and she died on a full moon day. H: Why did she die? Was it that her time to die had arrived? SAI: Her time to die arrived several years ago. But she prayed to Swami that before she died she wanted to see her grandson married, and she wanted to witness the celebration of Swami’s birthday. Swami granted her prayer. She also had a third desire, although she did not mention it. She had the desire that prior to her death she would spend some days with her youngest son. When she was at Prasanthi Nilayam in November, she said to Swami that her grandson had married and that she was now witnessing Swami’s birthday celebration and that she was now content to die anytime. Her major desires in the life had all been fulfilled. Swami replied that if she died now, her husband, who was abroad, would not be here. She said that Swami was here and that she was holding to Him and to nobody else. Swami told her that she should go to the city of her youngest son and visit him for some days, and she did so. On Dec. 18th, she was to return to her own home because her husband would arrive home from his trip abroad on Dec. 19th. On the 18th her son was driving her to the airport and she was talking to him from the back seat of the car. Then, there was no further talk from her. She became silent. The son turned to look and saw her fallen on her side. She was gone. H: Without any pain? SAI: No pain, no suffering. She was in good health and was gone in an instant. The son turned the car and returned home. Had the mother died at the airport, the body would have been impounded. The son turned the car around on the highway and immediately drove home. When he got to his house there was a phone call from Baba waiting for him. Baba had instructed one of the Ashram officials to place the phone call with the message to ‘send the body at once to your father’s house’. The Ashram official was puzzled at the message, since he knew nothing about ‘a body.’ Swami then phoned Mr. CD, the man who just now brought Mr. XY to Swami, and had him fly to Bombay to meet Mr. XY at the airport and bring him to Brindavan. That was the occasion that you just now witnessed. Mr. CD was not to tell XY about the death of his wife until such time as they were just about to arrive here. When you saw XY, he was overcome by the sudden news. The sequence of events was perfectly harmonized. When devotees surrender their lives to God and obey Him, He takes the full responsibility and cares for His devotees even to the smallest detail. One last point. When Swami reached the XY home after driving there from Prasanthi Nilayam, He arranged that the body be properly prepared and would remain so until XY drove home after seeing Baba and being comforted by Him. Thus, by harmoniously relating all details, Swami even allowed XY to see the features of his wife and take the correct farewell. H:Swami! Here just now we actually witnessed a part of this amazing story. How can all that be? Swami holds the entire universe in His Hand. He bears the responsibility for the inconceivable, immense universe. And how can He at the same time give this detailed attention to the lives of individual devotees? SAI: It is as you say. Swami holds the universe in His Hand. But devotees learn of the glory and majesty, through Swami’s attention to each one, personally. That Swami holds the universe yet at the same time fully cares for the lives of His devotees even to the smallest details is a measure of His glory that the devotee can understand. H: Swami! How is it that Swami makes a perfect harmony in one case, as with the death of Mrs. XY, and yet in another case,

CONVERSATIONS WITH SAI – Part Twenty Six H: Sometimes Swami speaks of the Ramayana and the Mahabharata as if they were historical, and sometimes as if they were to be taken as representative of every individual’s inner conflicts, virtues, bad qualities, etc. Are these events and people historical fact? Sai: Yes, they are a record of historical people and incidents. But in themselves, the battles and troubles of these families are unimportant. What is of lasting significance is the inner spiritual significance of the happening. Rama was a real person and an Avatar and Dasaratha was His father. Krishna was real and the events of His Avatara were real. Rama’s life, over the ages, has been altered and distorted somewhat, and Swami’s story of Rama will be a classic through several Yugas. In the time of Krishna, the viewpoint was different, and actions occurred that would be viewed in a different light today. H: Swami once mentioned that if we could see Rama today we would be much surprised at His appearance. Sai: Every age has its own circumstances, traditions and values, so it should not surprise us if everyone is not just like ourselves. Even today there are such differences. In African forests people have their own ideas of what is beauty. For example, they distort lips, nostrils and ears. In the age prior to that of Rama, people were accustomed to take as their unit of measure the distance from the fingertips to the elbow. At that time, the norm for the height of a person was 14 times the measurement. Thus the height of every person would have its own harmony. In the Threta Yuga, the age of Rama, the norm for height had reduced to seven times the distance of fingertip to elbow. For the Kali Yuga, the multiple is three and one half. The description of Rama is, “That which charms.” Extraordinary divine charm was a particular characteristic of Rama’s person. His features were perfect and had a beauty that pulled the heart of every person who saw Him. His figure was likewise perfect. Height and limbs were in perfect symmetry. H: We read that even the demons were unable to resist the charm of Rama. Sai: The Yakshas were called demons, but even they prostrated before Rama when they perceived His charming face and figure. The Yakshas had deformed faces. Sometimes the nose was missing. Sometimes the eyes were very deeply set. H: What about Krishna? How would He be described?Sai: The situation was somewhat different with Krishna. He had the quality of attraction. All were attracted to him and wished to come very close to him.H: Krishna was quite young then, was He not?Sai: Krishna was always young. In years, he was six or seven. The Gopis would pet Him like a child.H: In those days they had airplanes, did they not?Sai: The first was Pushpak, the one Ravana used to kidnap Sita. Indian Airlines is now building a small plane by the same name.H: Did they use atomic energy for power? Sai: No. By the power of mantra the plane would fly. Mantras were also used to shoot arrows. The arrows were worshipped to make them effective. When Arjuna heard of Krishna’s death, he forgot all mantras and was powerless. Today, at the festival of Navarathri, the farmers worship their farm implements with mantra and that has an effect. H: Then even today, mantras still have effect? Sai: Oh, yes. Even Westerners who experiment with the Gayatri mantra find it has power. The mantra should be said by a person well practiced in spiritual life. H: Swami does not seem to give out mantras. When His devotees are ready for mantra should they ask Swami, or will He say when they are ready? Sai: Mantras now are given out by low persons, the head of a Mutt here and there, some yogi, and so on. Avatars have never given mantras. The Avatar shows that God is everywhere. The recitation of a mantra is narrow-minded. In the time of an Avatar, to hear him, to understand what he says and do it is a mantra. Krishna gave no mantra to the Pandava brothers, not even to Arjuna. He simply said, “Do this, do that.” This was enough and the action was very powerful. H: Baba’s teaching carries the ring of truth and His words carry into action almost by themselves. Their authority does not even depend on whether Swami is an Avatar or not. Sai: Don’t doubt about the Avatar as Swami. Without His reading it, any question asked of Baba is answered immediately, without any pause, and in detail. H: An incident in Sri Krishna’s life that I do not understand is that when He instructed Arjuna to conduct the women and children to safety, Arjuna failed. Why? Sai: Arjuna always felt that Krishna was in his heart and that gave him his strength. When he heard that Krishna had died, he felt that Krishna was gone and as he felt this his strength left him. H: But Swami, if Arjuna had Krishna in his heart, why did Krishna’s death have such an effect? Sai: For some 80 years Arjuna felt Krishna was with him in his heart. The reaction of shock at the news of Krishna’s death caused him to momentarily forget. It was weakness. Then, he was not able to recapture the feeling of Krishna being with him. H: If Arjuna had kept the feeling and concept of Krishna in his heart, would he have retained his strength? Sai: When he heard that Krishna had died, he lost all interest in the world. H: The Gopis were overcome with grief when Krishna departed from there. They must have had Him in their hearts. Sai: At the news of Krishna’s death, a number of the Gopis fell lifeless from shock. H: Then their relationship was only with the form of Krishna? Sai: The Gopis had both relationships. Because of their years of close companionship with Krishna, they were strongly attached to Krishna’s physical presence. But they also were knowing Krishna in their hearts. They always felt He was with them, even when His worldly activity

CONVERSATIONS WITH SAI – PART Twenty Four A Visitor: These miracles that Swami does by moving His hand and out come very costly things from nowhere. Is there some explanation? SAI: Some objects Swami creates in just the same way that He created the material universe. Other objects, such as watches, are brought from existing supplies. There are no invisible beings helping Swami to bring things. His sankalpa, His divine will brings the object in a moment. Swami is everywhere. His creations belong to the natural unlimited power of God and are in no sense the product of yogic powers as with yogis or of magic as with magicians. The creative power is in no way contrived or developed, but is natural only. H (Hislop): Is it true that wild animals will not harm a saintly person? SAI: There was once a guru who told his disciple that God was in everything. The disciple believed the statement. That very day there was a royal parade. The king was the centre of attraction riding on an enormous elephant. Ignoring the rules of safety for such parades the disciple planted himself firmly in the path of the royal elephant, and he paid no attention to the cries of warning that he would be trampled to death. Upon reaching him, the elephant lifted him and put him safely to one side. The disciple went to the guru and complained that although God was in both the elephant and himself, he had been unable to remove the elephant from his path. That on the contrary, the elephant had removed him. The guru explained that it was merely a matter of the elephant having greater physical strength. He told the disciple that had he not been looking at God in the elephant the beast would have killed him just as a matter of ordinary work. However, since the disciple was looking at God in the elephant, God had safely lifted him out of harm’s way. No animal, not even a cobra, will harm the person who sees God as the essential reality of the animal or the snake. The same is usually true as regards dangerous men, but there are some exceptions here because of karmic implications. Saints and Scholars H: I bought this book The Saints of India. SAI: (Opening the book and looking at the names) They are not saints. They were scholars and heads of religious sects. (Sai read through the lists making a comment in Telugu about each name. Translator was silent.) H: Swami, it would be good to know the names of some real saints so that I could read about them. SAI: Buddha never mentioned God. The story is known that he was a prince with wife and child, that when he saw misery and death he determined to find their cause. For years he engaged in severe austerities. He made three announcements: All is suffering. All is transient. All is void. H: Then Buddha did not realize God but realised nirvana? The Greatness of Madhura Bhakthi SAI: Yes. (On a previous occasion Sai had said that one found that for which he sought, and the Buddha had searched for the cause of sorrow).There is only one yoga, and that is bhakthi yoga. All the others, Kriya yoga, hatha yoga, the so-called Sai yoga, pranayama, all the methods and techniques known as yogas belong to the body. They are like drill exercises. Right! Left! Up! Down! Where is the result? They are worthless and a waste of time; Bhakthi yoga is the direct path to God. It is the easy way. All others are useless. There are six types of Bhakthi. Madhura means sweet; this is the highest type. H: What makes madhura the highest? SAI: In this the devotee sees everything as God. When Jayadeva would lift his clothes to put on, he would see Krishna in the garments and would not treat them as clothes. He would go about the streets unclothed and people would put a garment around him. He would talk with Krishna, sing to Krishna, dance with Krishna, merge with Krishna, and fall senseless. He was the guru of Chaitanya. SAI: Jayadeva, Chaitanya, and Ramakrishna are in this madhura stream of bhakthi. Jayadeva saw himself as the bride of Krishna, and because of this his songs are taken by the public with a worldly meaning as being lustful. Whereas, the true meanings, the meanings they had for Jayadeva are quite different. To himself, the heart was the bride. He was the Atma. Chaitanya’s Madura Bhakthi H: What kind of person was Chaitanya? SAI: Chaitanya also would sing to Krishna and dance in ecstasy with Krishna. Once he visited an admirer. He was lodged in a room next to the prayer hall. Whenever food was offered to the 5-metal idol of Krishna, Chaitanya was observed to be eating that same food in his room. H: His devotion had… SAI: Chaitanya had Sachananda as a guru at one time. The guru wanted to test the devotion of Chaitanya. He placed a cube of sugar on Chaitanya’s tongue and said to him to keep it there until he returned from the river. At the river, Sachananda bathed, washed clothes, did his singing and was away some two hours. On returning, he found Chaitanya with his mouth still open and the cube of sugar vibrating somewhat, but intact on the tongue without any melting. Realising Chaitanya’s greatness, and that his control of the senses was so complete, he prostrated and declared that Chaitanya was his guru. Devotion in Modern Times H: Swami, are there such complete devotees living today, such as Jayadeva and Chaitanya? SAI: Oh yes, there are. But mostly they contain the devotion within themselves. Sometime it shows and the world judges the person to be of unsound mind. Swami has encountered such devotees, but He does not grant interviews. But the people live filled with joy. There was one such, a rani, a queen, who was encountered a few years ago. It was not appropriate to the situation to grant interview. H: Is it possible for a Western person

CONVERSATIONS WITH SAI – PART Twenty Two H: Some say it is necessary to mortify the body to overcome the tendencies? SAI: Some spiritual aspirants do tapas and various austerities that torture and weaken the body. This is wrong. If there is a healthy body, this is the basis for healthy thoughts. H: One’s tendencies are there for a long time. Despite oneself, they come up again and again. SAI: There is the sun, the magnifying glass, and the paper. God is the sun, far away. The heart is the glass. The desire and tendencies, the paper. If the glass is just right, the paper is burned at once. If the heart has strong love for God, and faith in Him, the glass is automatically right. THE SENSE OF TASTE H: One very strong tendency is in the tongue, the problem of taste, which gives rise to craving for more. How to overcome that? SAI: The body is like a boil. Water is for cleansing the wound. Food is the medicine. Clothing is the bandage. Considering the body so, reduces the strength of taste. But what is taken in by seeing, hearing, talking, is the more important food. Gross food for the body is like digging a well. Whereas pure, subtle impressions taken in by the other senses is like building a wall high into the heavens. It is building the wall high that should have the major emphasis. THE BODY AS THE TEMPLE OF GOD H: Body is like a boil. But Swami often uses the phrase, ‘the body is the temple of God’. SAI: In the spiritual world there is a different arithmetic. 3-1=1. There is you, the mirror, and the image. Remove the mirror, and there is only one left. Life is the mirror, body is the reflection. Be attached to God, and there is only One, God. The body is the temple of God. The life of the person is the priest. The five senses are the vessels used in the religious ceremony. Atma is God, the idol of God. One cannot say that the body is the temple of God unless it is. Every act, thought, and word should be worship in the temple. The five senses should constantly be cleansed and polished, so that the worship is reverently offered to God. One goes to the office and says to himself that every act of the day should be the worship of God, and it will be so. H: Swami says that when the senses leave their place and mix with worldly objects pain and pleasure are produced. What is the proper place of the senses? SAI: It is all the play of desire. Desire for worldly objects produces pleasure and pain, whereas desire for God confers bliss and does not produce pain. THE RIGHT EXPRESSION OF DESIREH: But Swami, most of our actions arise from worldly desires. We see, hear, think, feel, smell. Then there is some desire and that leads to action.SAI: God works through you as desire.H: Swami! Does God prompt even the bad desire?SAI: There is the strong thrust of the life force, the desire to live. If it goes into action in a favourable field, it becomes love; otherwise, it remains as desire. If desire is expressed in a favourable field, it is expressed as love. Then knowledge and bliss arise. The force, the strength, the energy, and the motivation in desire is God. Whether the desire is good or bad is related to time, place, and person. In early years, a desire for worldly achievement might be good. In later years, the same desire might be bad. Fruit, good one day may be rotten several days later. One side of an apple may become good, the other side rotten. Discrimination says eat the good side and discard the bad. There is another force in you through which God works, and that is discrimination. That force must be used to put aside wrong action. The power of discrimination knows what is right and what is wrong. The wrong desire is God overshadowed by Maya. Whereas discrimination is God less overshadowed by Maya. H: Swami! This really explains the whole problem of good and evil? SAI: Yes. The story of Valmiki is an illustration. He was a ruthless killer and robber without any doubt about his actions. He, at one time, listened to the five sages and started repeating ‘Ram’. The same strength and force that made him a terrible criminal was turned to Godly desire and action, and he gained God-realization. Valmiki started to repeat ‘Rama’ and, gaining speed ‘Rama’ became jumbled up with ‘Ma’ and ‘Mara’. In this he lost body sense and transcended the senses. Losing body sense should be like that, natural and not forced. H: Swami says that body, mind, intelligence do not work for anybody, that they do their own work. What does that mean? SAI: What is meant is, ‘unfortunately, that is the case’. They are doing their own work, but the work should be co-ordinated for the benefit of the igher. For example, the eyes see. Seeing is their work. But unless they see for somebody there is no point in their work. The mind should be seeing through the eyes. The intelligence should be directing and controlling the mind, for that is the intelligence’s own work. H: Then, for whom should the entire mechanism be functioning? SAI: For the Atma. A small example: the earth turns on its own axis, but at the same time it is revolving around the sun. The various faculties of man should do their own work, but the Atma is the centre of their universe. H: There seems to be something wrong. The Atma is not doing its work of directing the faculties. How can one bring the faculties under the control of the Atma? THE MEANING OF SURRENDER SAI: When one realizes that the Atma is the reality, everything will function very smoothly. It is a question of surrendering all to the Atma. H: But Swami has said that one cannot surrender that which he really does not own and of