CONVERSATIONS WITH SAI – Part Thirty six
God is the Doer
H (Hislop): Swami, I have two questions important for our work in daily life, and in preparation for the Symposium in Rome. In His Discourses, Swami says that God should be recognized as the Doer of all actions and that we should not take it upon ourselves to be the doer. Further, Swami also says that instead of depending on limited human strength, we should call upon the strength of God. Since Swami says these two things in his Discourses, then the instructions must be intended for everybody?
SAI: Take the viewpoint that God is working through you.
H: What does that mean, Swami? How does that apply in the actual actions taking place each day?
SAI: You think you are engaging in the action, but it is your body doing so, or your mind, or your intelligence. But God is working through them. It is only the Atma in you which is the source of action. The Atma is God.
H: Then, instead of considering that it is myself acting, I should tell myself-and appreciate-that “I” am just a word, and that all these actions and movements going on are not coming from “Hislop” but are actually God Himself acting?
SAI: God is using your intelligence, mind, and body as His instruments for doing that particular work. You write with a pen, or cut paper with scissors – but it is not those instruments that are doing the work, it is you who are using the instruments for the purpose of doing the work. Likewise, the instruments you call “yourself” – intelligence, mind, and body – are used by God for His purpose.
H: Is that a practical thing to do, hour in and hour out? Tell myself that my mind and body, at any and every moment, are at that moment being used by God as His instrument? Is that a practical way to live and move through the day?
SAI: Yes. That is the fact, and it is practical.
H: But Swami! Then it is God doing evil!
SAI: At first, maybe (i.e. apparently), but then not. It is not God who does evil. Evil is from the ego.
H: When I die….
SAI: (interrupting) Who are you? You do not die! The body is like clothes – off and on.
H: Then after the body dies, I take another? Why?
SAI: Balance of desires. Desires are like seeds – they sprout. These desires cause rebirth. Finish with desires – no more birth. Mind is a desire bundle.
H: But this creation – world, body, and mind – is it a projection of the Atma? Are mind, body, intelligence creations or projections of the Atma?
SAI: Creation is from the Atma. The Atma, God, is the positive. Body is the negative. They join and action results. Otherwise, nothing.
H: There is the Atma, and then creation as the projection from the Atma.
SAI: No! That is where the mistake is made! Creation is not a projection from the Atma; the Atma, God, is permeating every fibre of the creation. The form is just appearance….It is energy, God, the Divine Energy which causes the form and which is the actuality of the form.
The Unlimited Divine
H: To do all these tasks, Swami, takes a lot of energy. Human energy is low, and Swami says to call on the Divine Energy. How?
SAI: Yes, human energy is low and the Divine Energy is without limit! You are God!
H: Does Swami mean that when the human energy limit is felt, that I should reject it as false, and instead identify myself as God, as He who is limitless energy?
SAI: Yes. Reject it! Look at your shadow – you are sitting and your shadow is there. When you stand up, your shadow also grows. Your shadow is the human energy. You are the Divine Energy. When you rise, and also do the Divine work, your energy grows.
H: Swami, the Divine Energy versus limited human energy.
SAI: There is only Divine Energy.
H: But what seems to me to be my human energy does not seem to be sufficient; for example, the trip to Central America.
SAI: All is God. Know that it is He who is Energy. Then all is well.
H: Oh! When the human energy slows, leave it and know that the truth is Divine Energy! Like when some years ago on long drives, Baba would look a little tired; and then, instantly, he would be fresh like a flower.
SAI: Do not equate this body with human bodies. It is only the appearance of a form for the sake of the devotees. There is nothing of Swami except for His devotees. There are no desires. This body is just an appearance of form….There is matter. There is humanness. There is Divinity. Matter is selfishness; humanness is selfishness plus some kindness; God has no selfishness, just total love. As the base, selfishness is essential for health and prosperity. Without health, what can be done? Work for these must be done; then help others; then God only.
H: But Swami, even in that worldly work of necessary “selfishness”, where is “I”? Surely it is only God who is doing work?
SAI: That is better. That is the best way. You are only an instrument for Swami, an instrument which Swami is using for His purpose – you, U.S. Chairman, speaking of Swami’s teachings and so on.
Unlocking Divinity Within
SAI: What is Being?
Q: It is “Sat”.
SAI: That is just a Sanskrit word. Being means immortality.
(During the group portion of this interview, a lady with a dull colored bracelet on her arm, showed her wrist in front of Baba and asked Him to change the bracelet into something pretty. It seemed to me that Baba was not pleased with the demand, but nevertheless he removed the bracelet, held it with two fingers, blew His breath upon it, and it became a new shining gold bracelet of an entirely different pattern and configuration. At this point, the group portion of the interview ended and Swami began the series of private conversations in the inner interview room).
CONVERSATIONS WITH SAI – Part Thirty Seven
Baba first created some gifts, a ring for a lady – a green diamond in the center flanked by two white diamonds, all gems showing large flat facets. Then, for a lady who had a large japamala (rosary) of seeds, Baba created a Japamala of matched pearls, and showed her how to use it: The thumb, standing, separate, may be taken to represent God. The first finger, representing the individual person, is joined to the thumb, to the Divine. The three remaining fingers represent the three gunas – the three modes of temperament, thought, and action observable in all people – the middle finger being the Sathwic guna (calm, pure, balanced nature). The japamala is then drawn across the Sathwic finger by the thumb and the forefinger movement.
SAI: (Demonstrating the use of the japamala) Like this, Swami holds all of creation in His hand.
(A man from Nigeria was in the group, and Baba next turned to him.) What religion? What is your religion?
Answer: Christian.
SAI: Do you like Jesus?
Answer: Yes.
Moving His hand, Baba creates a ring, the centre stone of which carries a very fine portrait of Jesus. First, He shows the ring to those of us sitting near His chair, and then to the Nigerian, saying “Do you like Jesus? Which do you want, Jesus or Sai?” The Nigerian replied, “I would be pleased with either.”
Baba holds the ring between thumb and forefinger about six inches from His lips and blows His breath upon it. Then He shows it to those close to His chair. The portrait on the centre stone has changed from that of Jesus to a portrait of Sai. To the Nigerian, Baba then says, “Now you have both. Come here”. The man moves forward and Baba places the ring on his finger, Baba says, “See, a perfect fit.”
Later on, it was the Nigerian’s turn to go into the inner interview room for a brief, private conversation, and when he came out we could see that the ring had changed yet once again. Baba had again recreated the ring and it was now a single large diamond in an appropriate setting. As Sai followed the man into the main room, He said, “He didn’t like a large ring!” This remark caused considerable merriment. In fact, the entire interview was joyful in the extreme and Baba was in a great mood, constantly cracking jokes. Hearing such happy laughter coming from the group, the people outside were wondering what on earth was happening.
Living with Desires
SAI: Any questions? Spiritual topics?
Q: How to live with worldly desires which rise endlessly?
SAI: Turn all wishes and desires to God, then all will be well. Mind is like a key to the door of a prison. Turn it to the left, the door opens and the person is free to turn towards God and spiritual life. Turn the key to the right, and the person is locked into worldly life. Turn every wish and every desire into desire to be with God, and be happy.
Q: Swami, what is the truth of the mind? How to use thought and the mind?
SAI: There is no mind. Just as cloth is seen as thread, then as cotton only, there is only God. God is like a perfect mirror: your desires, thoughts, and actions are perfectly reflected in that perfect mirror, which is God. When your desires, thoughts, and actions are reflected back to you, you may think God sent them, but they are really your own.
Q: But what to do about bad thoughts and desires?
SAI: Human thoughts and desires. If you think, “I am human”, then such human aspects of anger and jealousy will be reflected and will return to you. But you are not human. You are Divine. You are God. Think and feel, “I am Divine”. Then you will think and feel only love, for God is Love. Every place, everything is Love, Love only.
Q: I have a desire which I cannot put away.
SAI: What?
Q: Privacy. I must have privacy.
SAI: Physical privacy is first, then mental privacy.
Q: And I make mistakes; the same mistakes. Can I give my mistakes to Baba?
SAI: Oh, yes. I am always ready. Give your life to me. Be my instrument. I act through you.
Q: Then even bad thoughts and acts are by you?
SAI: Human thoughts and acts. God is love only. You are Divine. Be Love. Act in Love.
Q: But, Swami, the mistakes I make. Even though I know better, I make the same mistakes. Can I give you my repeated mistakes?
SAI: Once, or twice, or three times perhaps it is the same mistake, but repeating again and again means it is no more a mistake. It is habit!
Love and the Soul
H (Hislop): Swami says that if one is so fortunate as to have God’s Love, then no spiritual practice, no sadhana is necessary?
SAI: Yes. If you have God loving you, then no sadhana, no meditation, no inquiry, nothing more is needed, for, then everything is God. All thoughts are of God, only God is seen; the whole day is with God only.
Q: What is soul?
SAI: Soul is the Atma. It does not die. You are Atma, not body.
Q: But Swami, there is something else. Something has results.
SAI: Yes, result is from desire. It is like this golden watch band you are wearing. You wish for a ring; the gold is taken from the bracelet and it becomes a ring. Then you are no longer pleased with a ring, but instead long for a golden necklace. The gold is taken and it becomes a necklace. All are different forms, but the gold is the same.
H: Swami informs us that this life in the world is a dream only.
SAI: Yes, a dream.
H: But Swami works endlessly in the dream. Why?
SAI: If the dream is realized as such, then the world is done with. Swami helps those caught in the dream.
H: But it is still a dream, without purpose or end. Why bother with it?
SAI: A big scientist may know that a child’s world is a dream and has no reality which is lasting. But this does not prevent him from sitting down with the child at the child’s level. Again, Sai could be likened to an aircraft which briefly touches down in order to take passengers up from the ground.
H: Swami! There is room for only a limited number!
SAI: Limited, yes! Always there is room for a limited number only.
H: Swami! How to get a booking?
