CONVERSATIONS WITH SAI – Part Thirty
The Uniqueness of Human Birth
H (Hislop) : May I ask a spiritual question?
SAI: Go ahead.
H: Is there something that is unique about having a physical body?
SAI: The human form is unique in that the divine force is as much as 80 per cent present. In the animal only about 15 per cent. Man can raise himself to union with God, whereas the animal can never be free of its natural state. For example, a cat can be fed some nice things, but if it sees a mouse, even while eating the food, it leaves the food and goes for the mouse. A tiger can be trained, but food made from grains does not satisfy it. The tiger’s impulse to kill and eat remains.
H: But Swami, what is so unusual about it? Why should anyone wish to have a physical body?
SAI: Hislop is in Mexico or America or Puttaparthi. Without a body how would he know where he was? A stone falls. The force of gravity is unseen but is revealed by the falling stone. The body of man is necessary because it is able to reveal the unseen God. The sun, moon and stars are in space, and they move and revolve according to order and discipline. If that discipline wavered for a moment all would collapse. What maintains that discipline? It is the unseen divine force.
H: What is unique and special about having a human body?
SAI: Swami already explained that the body serves to reveal the indwelling divinity.
H: Yes, Swamiji. But I mean from the standpoint of the individuals what is the value to the individual of having a body? He lives and dies, why should he care? Science says there are many planets where there will be much the same life.
SAI: In all the universe there is no other planet that has human life, or a similar life-form.
H: In that case, Swami, there has to be something very special and unique about life in a physical body?
SAI: There is life throughout the universe. To God, the universe is one. Rebirth can never be in other regions of the universe. Always the rebirth is on Earth.
H: Swami, what does that mean to the individual?
SAI: The expression of life on Earth is upward through the human to the Divine. By virtue of human birth, the next step is the full realization of the Divine. Human life is sacred and must be appreciated as having the highest value.
H: Considering the individual, Swamiji, can it be that Swami is saying that human birth is some sort of a special opportunity to get free from birth and death?
SAI: Quite right. That is the case.
H: Swamiji! Then, that is it? That is the secret! That is unique feature of being born into a body!
SAI: Yes, that is the unique feature.
H: Swami, are there other regions throughout the universe where there may also be an escape from birth and death.
SAI: Only on Earth may this take place. In no other planet or region throughout the indescribable vastness of the universe does this opportunity exist. It is unique and is limited to this earth.
H: Swami! Wonderful! Wonderful! How sacred is this Earth! How infinitely precious is human birth!
SAI: That is so. But people have no appreciation or understanding of it. They do not know.
H: Swami, may this great life-secret be told to the devotees? At Sathya Sai Baba centres, they should know that even five minutes time wasted is a tragic loss in the face of the magnificence of this human opportunity.
SAI: Yes, you may tell. The question that you have raised is of the greatest importance, and the answer may be told.
H: Swami, the answer is divine! It is so wonderful that adequate appreciation cannot be put into words. Swamiji said that there was no rebirth from Earth to other regions of the universe. How about the reverse? Can there be a movement from the regions or universe to Earth?
SAI: All life may aspire to human birth. But only through the human birth may God be realized. To waste time is the greatest folly. Now and here is the individual. Now and here is the opportunity to realize the absolute goal of life. Who can be sure of the conditions and status of his next birth? Not even one moment of this life should be wasted.
The Sadhana of Adjusting to Life
A Visitor: Swami, I have a question. What is the best sadhana for a young person with business, family attachments and bondage. (After Swami had jokingly referred to the visitor’s 8 month-old daughter as attachment bondage – Samsara)?
SAI: It is not correct to look at these things as bondage or attachment. They must be seen as “adjustment sadhana.” To keep your life balanced and to give direction they are good things. The changes you must make in your life, your daily routine – these adjustments are sadhana, not bondage.
The purpose of all sadhana is to see the good, the Divine in everything and to be able to overlook the bad, the evil. From the viewpoint of Divinity, there is no good or bad – all is Divine. But the mind sees this as good and that as bad, this as right and that as wrong. It is the mind that must be trained to see the Divine in everyone and in each difficulty.
A small example: A dead dog is on the road, crows are pecking at it. People walk by and say, “Oh, what a terrible sight and horrible smell !” But Jesus was walking by and He said, “What beautiful teeth the dog has, so white and shiny. Nobody was brushing or taking care, but still the dog kept such beautiful teeth.” Jesus was showing that one can see the best qualities in even the worst situations. People who are saintly look always to the good and do not become entangled in the bad.
Another example: A knife is used by a surgeon and a knife is also used by a villain. The surgeon’s cutting of a person is for his good, but the villain uses the knife for an evil purpose. A butcher may use knife to cut meat and a lady may use a knife to cut fruit for a salad. If all the knives are put in a circle with a magnet at the centre, all the knives will be equally attracted by the magnet. The good or bad is not in the knives. God is the magnet and all men are attracted to God. Good and bad are not in a human being, but in the way the mind is used.
Do not fill the mind with thoughts of the evil actions that may be perceived in the world. The purpose of all types of sadhana is to train the mind to see the Divine in everything – that is true adjustment sadhana. You can carry this out in everything you do.
H: Devotees in New York would like to have a guideline for personal life, similar to the administrative Guidelines for Centers.
SAI: The principal thing is that the life and the work should be dedicated to God.
H: Swami, they would like a series of do’s and don’ts to guide them through the day.
SAI: There are so many different vocations and professions that each has its appropriate code of behaviour. One vital principle for everyone is to do no harm to others. We should do everything in our power to help others.
H: A big problem that faces these young people is that of drugs. It is the general belief that marijuana is not harmful.
SAI: The awakening each morning should be a new birth. After awakening, be quiet for a few minutes. Pray to God for strength to live the day in dedication to Him, and for the strength to help others. At night time, there is a new death. Recollect the day – but not in detail, and offer it to the Almighty. In the morning, the day was dedicated to God. At night, the day’s work and its fruit is laid as an offering at His Lotus Feet.
No Publicity for Sai Centres
H: Swami, new Centers, with maybe only three people, want to have some other people come to their meetings, but months pass and nobody comes. Could they do something like posting a notice of their meeting at places like health food stores?
SAI: No. Swami prefers that additional people come only through observing the virtuous lives of the Center members, and by word of mouth. Notices and such might start small, but in time they will get out-of-hand. Even such small things as notices will be taken as an advertising of Swami. Other Swamis have to advertise and even provide transport, but Sai does no advertising, yet thousands come. Sai even tells the people here to go home, but they stay. There is this difference.
H: Then the small Centers will need to just patiently wait for membership increases?
SAI: Yes.
H: Swami, some questions arise in the American Centers for which I do not have an answer. Many people of Jewish faith do not understand why the symbol of the Jewish faith is not included in the Sai symbol of all religions, since the Jewish people exceed in numbers some of the religions represented in the Sai symbol.
SAI: It is not through any intention that the Jewish symbol is excluded. In India, there is not a general awareness that the Jewish symbol is substantially different. Does the Cross fail to symbolize the Jewish faith to a substantial degree?
H: Yes, Swami. There is a substantial difference.
SAI: Then let the Jewish people make a proposal to us and we will give consideration to it.
H: Swami says that there is the duty of self-preservation. People wonder how far this goes. To save one’s own life, should one kill the person who is attacking?
H: Swami’s discourse about people going to the Moon Loka (world of moon) and the Sun Loka (world of sun) created much confusion.
SAI: Sai has explained it before, and perhaps the people asking the question did not read. People may think there is a journey over a distance to the realm of Indra, the Moon, and the Sun. All such changes are within the person. If a person develops his life so that he has great physical force and strength, he is said to have centered his life in the Indra Loka. If he has developed his mind to such an extent that it is beyond the comprehension of an ordinary person, his life is said to be in the Moon Loka. And, if a man had developed intelligence to a maximum extent, his life is said to be in the Sun Loka.
SAI: A good action is good whether accomplished by instinct or reason. Is not the shelter provided by a tree good for both animal and man? When a cow denies milk to its calf because the milk is taken by the herdsman, the result is beneficial for the human persons who drink the milk, and the benefit enjoyed is no less because the cow did not think, but is only being itself. And the dog in the house, does he not guard and care for the master, and love him too? A human guard must be paid, but the dog gives love and loyalty without concept of payment. There are endless examples throughout nature of good and virtuous action being fully effective, even though, by instinct, the animal or plant is only being true to its own nature.
Human life is not being depleted even though millions die and, in addition, there is a constant transition from humanity to the Divine. Instead of depletion, the human population is growing, and this new supply comes from the rock, the insect, the animal. Even science testifies that the rock decomposes and becomes the tree; the vegetation is eaten and becomes the animal; and the animal in its various aspects is consumed and becomes the human. It is a constant process of passing from one grade to another. The human birth is the final birth and, dependent on the virtue of the life, it ends in the Divine, or is reborn again.
H: Is degrading possible? Is there a rebirth back to the animal?
SAI: The possibility is not denied, but it is only rarely that such a thing happens. The degrading of human life due to lack of virtue will normally result in rebirth as a lower grade human. The total process is always present. Table and wood are equally present. If attention is given to wood, table is not seen. If attention is given to table, wood is not seen.
The smaller circle is what you think you are, the next one what others think you are, and the third is what you really are: the Atma. The smaller circle may expand and expand until it merges with the larger, the Atma.
H: Swamiji, that is the present list of questions that have come up for which I did not have the answers.
SAI: It is good. It is important that the questions be asked. They are the questions that are presented to the many gurus, but Sai can give the correct answers.
CONVERSATIONS WITH SAI – Part Thirty One
Peace On Earth
SAI: Crime has become very bad in India. There is no safety.
H (Hislop): Swami, this is not particular to India. The same is true all over the world. How will it all end?
SAI: To the good. In a few years, all will be peaceful.
H: But Swami, it is getting worse, and it is the Kali Yuga (a world period of diminishing virtue).
SAI: No, it is not as bad now as it was. It is like in the ocean. There is a time of high waves, and there may be some peak waves that crash heavily on the shore, but this is followed by a calm and peaceful sea.
H: Many people are saying that, very shortly, we will enter a period of great catastrophe.
SAI: There may be some peak waves, as I mentioned but the world will be happy, peaceful, and prosperous.
Guest: No world war?
SAI: No, no world war.
H: We are fortunate to be alive so that we may see this peaceful world.
SAI: You will all see it. Even old men will live to see it.
Guest: Then Prema Sai will not have much work to do! Swami will have made the world peaceful.
SAI: That is some forty years away (this conversation took place in December 1978). At that time the world will be peaceful. That is the Name: Prema Sai. All will be love – love, love, love everywhere.
Guest: It would be good to be reborn in the time of Prema Sai!
SAI: No, now. Already there is some slight improvement in India. One cause of the general deterioration in the world is rapid communication. This allows advertising and publicity to have a strong influence on people. Your American election is an illustration of how the leaders are television actors.
H: Swami, there is no evidence of a change for the better.
SAI: If there is a change, it will be a universal change not local. It will occur at every place.
H: This rapid world-wide communication also results in common knowledge of how to build an atom bomb. Is there not a great danger of some small nation using the bomb?
SAI: The danger is not of someone using the bomb. People are no longer afraid of death from the bomb. So long as they can pursue their objective of getting money, they are willing to risk death and to die. It is not the bomb that is the danger, it is the mind that is the danger. The bomb exists only as an instrument of the mind. The need is for a change of mind.
H: But Swami, people do not care to learn about that. They have no interest in Swami or in listening to Him.
SAI: Minds can and do change. For example, the lifestyle of people can be so bad that they become ashamed and change. The hippies’ life style is so low and so dishonest and immoral that groups of hippies, observing their own life reflected in another group, become ashamed and of themselves they change.
H: Well, at least Swami’s devotees know about changing the mind and can do so.
SAI: Were it not for the mind change of Sai devotees the world would already have fallen into complete chaos. The deterioration of mind and man has been very rapid and abrupt, even precipitous during the last fifteen years. That the world is not in total destruction is due to the change in mind of Sai devotees and to Sai’s Grace. You are not aware of it, just as you are not aware of your eyes until they are lost. In the same way, the world is not aware of Sai’s Grace.
Swami Talks with Jewish Devotees
Today the standard should be the brotherhood of man, based on the divine love of God for all mankind. Each religion should follow that which is its own and not follow a path which belongs to others, but which is not its own. Follow your own tradition, but do not hate others. Be broadminded, as are the followers of Sai.
The Bible, the Koran, the Vedas, the Granth – all represent the same creation. All were following the voice of God. All arose from the whisper of God which, in the pure minds of the hearers, flowered into eight sounds, eight letters, and from this, all words evolved. The eight sounds were the vowels and consonants of language. The foundation of the Jewish religion is precisely the same as that of the Vedas. The breath of God, cognized by the pure attention of the ancient seers, was heard as eight sounds, and these sounds have been given names. (Baba here pronounced each of these eight primeval sounds, but I could not write them down.)
The Sai symbol of five religions represents the five major religions found in India. For the West, the Jewish Star may be added as a sixth representation on the Sai symbol.
Q: Was Jesus the Messiah of the Jews?
SAI: No. He did not represent the ancient Jewish tradition. He represented the factor of change.
Q: In the Bible it says that the Jews are God’s chosen people.
SAI: All people were created by God. Thus all are His chosen people.
Q: What is the significance of Hitler?
SAI: Hitler’s actions were activated by ego and power.
Q: For what reason have the Jews been persecuted?
SAI: For every event there is a cause. There is no reason. Sai acts only for love, for the benefit of others. He has no desires. He has no selfish interest.
